It's considered a Terry Stop (officer safety, is s court case that gives cops essentially unlimited latitude in violating the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendment), they can pat you down anytime for any reason of they can articulate that out was specifically for their safety concerns, even if they initially start the encounter and you haven't done anything that would warrant suspicious activity
Terry Stops
- Thread starter Monty_monty
- Start date
- Tags 4thamendment law patdowns scotus
Yeah, here is an interesting update:
https://www.fletc.gov/sites/default...-by-subject/4th-amendment/terrystopupdate.pdf
If you look at the examples given as to what is justified they are very specific and i agree with every one of them.
However if you look at my case where I consider the reason for my stop to be "driving while white" in a clean, non-dented, car w/o boom box type radio blasting, doing the speed limit, signaling on turns and all stop, signaling, driving, license plate lights working in an area where such isn't common somehow doesn't fit justification for what happened.
Maybe the LEO's involved were out sick when that subject was presented at the academy.
https://www.fletc.gov/sites/default...-by-subject/4th-amendment/terrystopupdate.pdf
If you look at the examples given as to what is justified they are very specific and i agree with every one of them.
However if you look at my case where I consider the reason for my stop to be "driving while white" in a clean, non-dented, car w/o boom box type radio blasting, doing the speed limit, signaling on turns and all stop, signaling, driving, license plate lights working in an area where such isn't common somehow doesn't fit justification for what happened.
Maybe the LEO's involved were out sick when that subject was presented at the academy.
No Terry Stops only include your person and very limited area around you... is the theory, but in practice they aren't held accountable if they "go beyond the scope", look at NYPD Stop 'n Friskb that occurred for 2 decades before they were forced to change the reporting requirements that made the officers less inclined to do the extra steps (so it was never about officer safety, but a way to gather evidence illegally)
The police officer cannot search beyond what is necessary to ensure their safety. But in a vehicle the area gets more expansive
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-4/terry-stop-and-frisks-and-vehicles
It's all just a scam to violate the 4th Amendment
The police officer cannot search beyond what is necessary to ensure their safety. But in a vehicle the area gets more expansive
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-4/terry-stop-and-frisks-and-vehicles
It's all just a scam to violate the 4th Amendment
When people are on parole they are told they are not allowed to be in certain areas. They have them outlined on a map. Those areas are not always obvious. The hot zones are under constant surveillance and if you look like you don’t belong there, they are gonna light you up and possibly ransack your vehicle. There will be no repercussions for the cop because those areas are under investigation and everyone moving through it is automatically an unlucky candidate for probable cause..One of those outlined hot zones was (at one point, not sure if anymore) Old Sunrise Hwy where the AMP is. Because of the motel, not the AMP lol. Thats where they got me years ago for what I thought was no reason.
From the article: "..search...may extend as well to a protective search of the passenger compartment of a car if an officer possesses 'a reasonable belief, based on specific and articulable facts . . . that the suspect is dangerous and . . . may gain immediate control of weapons.' ”
So I guess somehow my shave kit, in my gym bag, in my car's locked trunk caused the officer to have "a reasonable belief" that I could possibly "gain immediate control of weapons.” while I was being frisked by another officer 10 feet away from my car?
So I guess somehow my shave kit, in my gym bag, in my car's locked trunk caused the officer to have "a reasonable belief" that I could possibly "gain immediate control of weapons.” while I was being frisked by another officer 10 feet away from my car?
Like I said, what the training and law state versus what they do are entirely 2 distant and vastly different things. And the courts will look the other way in nearly every case as officer safety is presumptively more important than your civil liberties, even if we're entirely innocent and just going to a neighborhood (as was my case in visiting childhood friends in Bellport, not even a beer, just a game of 'Axis and Allies'), as a 20- something-ish kid I was more afraid of not letting the cop harass us
Courts will routinely accept "officer safety" as paramount even if it means you have to suffer the loss of civil liberties, now you may win your court cases [I have, by default they just dismiss any charges, in my case the only charges obstruction of Justice/interference with an officer colloquially "Contempt of Cop", because I refused to cooperate and allow him to search when an similar event occurred when i was older and knew more, and wouldn't kowtow to being harassed with no other crimes or evidence of crimes (refused the suspicionless bag searches on subway 2011ish and paid my fare and went through the gates anyways), they just try to grind you down, even if you are lucky enough to get an officer held accountable and a judge, a DA and a private lawyer to take the case up it'll be tossed as there is no precedents; it must be exactly for the same articulated verbatim situation from a court cases otherwise the officer [doesn't have to know the law and isn't held responsible] and the case is dismissed, then it becomes can you afford to pursue it for the next 5-7 years in court fees, lawyer fees and miscellaneous fees to make it a standing precedent case- chances are you'll be financially ruined going against the unlimited resources of the PBA, governments law enforcement Agency and the municipalities, and even if you could win against that stack deck, it will only be binding law on future officers so your only helping future victims and you get nothing in the end.
Courts will routinely accept "officer safety" as paramount even if it means you have to suffer the loss of civil liberties, now you may win your court cases [I have, by default they just dismiss any charges, in my case the only charges obstruction of Justice/interference with an officer colloquially "Contempt of Cop", because I refused to cooperate and allow him to search when an similar event occurred when i was older and knew more, and wouldn't kowtow to being harassed with no other crimes or evidence of crimes (refused the suspicionless bag searches on subway 2011ish and paid my fare and went through the gates anyways), they just try to grind you down, even if you are lucky enough to get an officer held accountable and a judge, a DA and a private lawyer to take the case up it'll be tossed as there is no precedents; it must be exactly for the same articulated verbatim situation from a court cases otherwise the officer [doesn't have to know the law and isn't held responsible] and the case is dismissed, then it becomes can you afford to pursue it for the next 5-7 years in court fees, lawyer fees and miscellaneous fees to make it a standing precedent case- chances are you'll be financially ruined going against the unlimited resources of the PBA, governments law enforcement Agency and the municipalities, and even if you could win against that stack deck, it will only be binding law on future officers so your only helping future victims and you get nothing in the end.
Wether one agrees with Terry stops or not, a NYPD officer was shot and killed today performing a traffic stop, by a piece of shit low life skell who had 21 previous arrests Should he survive the bullet he took, I wish him pain and suffering for the rest of his life.
The officer was only doing his job -
My hat is off to members of LE who go out there every day and try and protect society from these deranged criminals
May he RIP
The officer was only doing his job -
My hat is off to members of LE who go out there every day and try and protect society from these deranged criminals
May he RIP
Cops routinely do illegal searches of vehicles. If they find nothing they send you on your way. If they find something they make up a justification after the fact. Thankfully body cameras and people videotaping the encounters is making them more cautious. Don't get me wrong I know the police do dangerous work and keep us safe but they are under pressure to make arrests and do bend the rules of search and seizure.
Illegal searches of vehicles are a serious issue. This happened to me about 10 or more years ago on Hempstead Turnpike in Levittown.
A police officer pulled me over, asked where I was going/coming from, then instructed my buddies and me to get out of the car and sit on the curb. We were handcuffed while they searched my car, dismantling everything from the trunk to the glove box, dumping it all on the street/ sidewalk. I was so embarrassed that I even shed some tears( I’m being honest). Cars slowed down to look, causing some traffic.At that time there was about 3 cop vehicles there.
The officers claimed we matched the description of someone who had set a house on fire. They made us face forward while a group of white kids behind a squad car drove by us to see if we were the suspects. I felt like I was going to sent to jail and was overwhelmed with guilt, though we were innocent and just headed to a reggaeton club.
All I could think about was my mother and how she wouldn't cope if I were jailed. I really thought it was over me. (My eyes are watering, as I write this story)
Thankfully, the kids were honest and confirmed we weren't the ones. My friends and I had to gather all our belongings from the sidewalk and put them back in my car. After that experience, I didn't want to go out for a long time.
A police officer pulled me over, asked where I was going/coming from, then instructed my buddies and me to get out of the car and sit on the curb. We were handcuffed while they searched my car, dismantling everything from the trunk to the glove box, dumping it all on the street/ sidewalk. I was so embarrassed that I even shed some tears( I’m being honest). Cars slowed down to look, causing some traffic.At that time there was about 3 cop vehicles there.
The officers claimed we matched the description of someone who had set a house on fire. They made us face forward while a group of white kids behind a squad car drove by us to see if we were the suspects. I felt like I was going to sent to jail and was overwhelmed with guilt, though we were innocent and just headed to a reggaeton club.
All I could think about was my mother and how she wouldn't cope if I were jailed. I really thought it was over me. (My eyes are watering, as I write this story)
Thankfully, the kids were honest and confirmed we weren't the ones. My friends and I had to gather all our belongings from the sidewalk and put them back in my car. After that experience, I didn't want to go out for a long time.
I just read that LE got a search warrant to search the glove box in the car where they found a gun with s/n's ground off ( not the one that shot the cop which was found elsewhere).
This was after the driver of the car admitted to cops that there was a gun there.
So:
With me, a white middle aged guy, ordered to and was standing outside the car was patted down, every inch of the car including the glove box and the locked trunk searched w/o my consent.
with the car, where the driver admitted that there was another gun in the car when questioned, and the car containing the guy who shot and killed the NYPD office and was shot by his partner, i.e., a crime scene, required a search warrant?
Ps. I am not making light of this terrible situation, but if these dirt bags followed my rule only commit one crime at a time, (they were illegally parked in a bus lane) this particular situation would not have gone down.
This was after the driver of the car admitted to cops that there was a gun there.
So:
With me, a white middle aged guy, ordered to and was standing outside the car was patted down, every inch of the car including the glove box and the locked trunk searched w/o my consent.
with the car, where the driver admitted that there was another gun in the car when questioned, and the car containing the guy who shot and killed the NYPD office and was shot by his partner, i.e., a crime scene, required a search warrant?
Ps. I am not making light of this terrible situation, but if these dirt bags followed my rule only commit one crime at a time, (they were illegally parked in a bus lane) this particular situation would not have gone down.
In this situation where they want to prosecute it as a homicide they are taking no chances.
They are dotting the I's and crossing the T's.
No way are they letting some scum bag lawyer find some technicality and ruin the case.
In your case that night they didn't give a shit. Just some asshole Suffolk cops giving you a hard time and not expecting any consequences for their actions.
They are dotting the I's and crossing the T's.
No way are they letting some scum bag lawyer find some technicality and ruin the case.
In your case that night they didn't give a shit. Just some asshole Suffolk cops giving you a hard time and not expecting any consequences for their actions.